Porsche - the company that can't win.

"themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles" (themanwithsauce) 09/07/2015 at 00:19 • Filed to: None

2

53

On the one hand, they need to meet fuel and CO2 regulations to keep being able to sell cars. On the other, they want to be free and independent and only build “pure” cars to appease the purists and keep up their sales. So basically here are their options - 1) Hook up with a corporate overlord, build their “pure cars” that are NA and have the flat 6 in the butt and a lithe sportster/speedster/roadster but then pump out rebadged corporate gunk to appease the overlords who make the tin-can runabaouts that let them hit the numbers together. 2) Break tradition, do things the porsche way (porsche existed before the 911, porsche has made more than the 911, and porsche has seen sales of the “traditional” 911 fall before), and have people who won’t buy their car anyways hate them for doing what they need to do to survive.......which involves breaking all the “traditions” besides kicking ass at le mans.

Oh well, they’ll survive and I for one welcome our new twin turbocharged overlords! Now hurry up and make a 550 spyder successor! 45-55k high output inline 4, mid engined, of course, and then have 80 bajillion options so it can eclipse the boxster when optioned up correctly (which is WRONG). Or.......make the NA the “spyder” and the turbo the “boxster”? Maybe switch the names for racing purposes. OOOOOOOOOOOO yeah there we go. Turbo 4 porsche spyder giving everyone wedgies in lower classes while the 911 drops twin turbocharged hammers on everyone in the higher tiers and the 919 taking the lunch money of the other prototypes........Yeah, I think they’ll be okay. They have options. I don’t think Porsche is in the business of failing. I will not say that turboing all the 911s is perfect, but I think they know what they’re doing and am still excited for the future and would love to own a brand new 911 some day.

For Sweden > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 09/07/2015 at 00:23

4

Hook up with a corporate overlord

Well, VW is right there

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 09/07/2015 at 00:32

0

Of course you and everyone else would make such a post to spite me my opinions...Everyone’s out against me in this stupid CO2 fuel economy big brother whatever world we live in.

I would buy their new cars but wait....Lets see if you’ve heard this one before.

I’M IN COLLEGE AND HAVE NO DAMN MONEY TO DO SO (-_-)

Can’t vote with my wallet worth shit, and when I can, fucking replace that motor with a damn battery why don’t you, god damn self fulfilling prophecy.

If only I was old enough and had the money to drink the sadness away.

PS9 > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 09/07/2015 at 00:37

0

I think there is more to their decision to go full turbo than just the regulations. People delegate rulemaking to the government, and it can’t do that without almost full control over the means of coercion. This of course makes them a convenient foil, which is why it’s not a paradox to run against the government as a politician. I still remember the time Mercedes pacified enthusiasts with “Well, regulations...” when asked why they don’t sell most of their wagons here. “Because you don’t buy them anymore.” Isn’t as sexy as an answer. I suspect “Because it doesn’t make business sense for us to make N/A engines anymore.” wouldn’t go over as well with Porsche buyers.

Also, not sure about european regs, but the idea that Porsche would not survive as an organization without full compliance with US regulations is nonsense. The actual penalites for violating them (like, on the regular for decades) have no hope at all of actually hurting a major international organization like V.A.G. or Daimler.

Übel > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2015 at 00:42

7

It must be rough running around with only the keys to a $25k Ford and a pair of vintage Porsches in your pocket at, what, 18-19 years old? Grow up.

Übel > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 09/07/2015 at 00:42

4

I, for one, will never be caught complaining about twin-turbo ANYTHING.

NoahthePorscheGuy > Übel 09/07/2015 at 00:43

3

#rekt

NoahthePorscheGuy > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2015 at 00:47

0

I’m just pissed that they got rid of carburetors. How can you have a 911 without carburetors?

If only I was old enough and had the money to buy gasoline to drink the sadness and consciousness away.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 09/07/2015 at 00:47

1

As someone who loves boost, I welcome our boosted overlords.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Übel 09/07/2015 at 00:49

0

Oh absolutely. It’s fantastic having a monthly payment on a $22k Ford and one of two Porsches running at a time. One of which isn’t actually and truly mine to begin with. There are plenty of other 20 year olds with more than I’ll ever have.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > For Sweden 09/07/2015 at 00:49

0

They do and yet they don’t. You know VW would love to use that sweet, sweet batch of Porsche Assets to continue trying to dethrone toyota in their pursuit to be more beige. Most companies make hybrids to make emissions and mileage numbers. Porsche adds twin turbos.

ranwhenparked > For Sweden 09/07/2015 at 00:50

0

Isn’t Porche technically Volkswagen’s overlord?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > NoahthePorscheGuy 09/07/2015 at 00:51

0

I’m pissed that they got rid of K-Jetronic and torsion bars. How can you have a 911 without that?

I’d definitely do that. Race gas.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2015 at 00:52

1

The issue I have is that the 911s you like will still be around. And that really, Porsche is more than the 911. They always have been. So ringing the death knell of the brand because of this decision could be said any number of times throughout the years. Hell, Porsche has had air cooled turbos back in the day. Turbocharging is what they do. As I said to for_sweden, most ocmpanies make a hybrid model. Porsche adds twin turbos. YOU ADD TWIN TURBOS TO APPEASE THE GREENIES! WHO THE FUCK ELSE BESIDES PORSCHE WOULD DO THAT?!?!?!?! Even ferrari added batteries and lamborghini is shacked up with VW close enough to count their credits or whatever.

Übel > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2015 at 00:54

3

No wonder you got dumped.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Übel 09/07/2015 at 00:57

1

Oh yes. I got “dumped” because the girl had to move back home out of state because her mother was dying of colon cancer and it just wouldn’t work out. No fucking wonder I got dumped you fucking asshole.

But you know what, THANKS you shit.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 09/07/2015 at 01:00

0

And turbo 4 Caymans, because I totally want that if I could afford that. All this is gonna do is give everyone an excuse to raise the resale value of their cars because they’re the last N/A cars. Just like idiots are trying to upsell 996s because they think they’re old enough to be considered “classic 911s” like aircooled cars.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2015 at 01:06

0

And? This surprises you? You weren’t going to buy a mint one anyways. Neither would/will I. I’ll get a driver that needs work and upkeep. THose will be cheap for a little while or at least hold their value and not get much more expensive, if at all. Besides, there are any number of changes that have been made to the model line over the years that have affected “value”. The increase in engine displacement, the addition of the turbo inspired engines and options (turbo-look body options anyone?), the 912 being a 4-cylinder 911, the 928 being introduced as a replacement, the targa body style, and this all avoids the air cooled vs. water cooled debate.

Übel > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2015 at 01:09

2

Well I am truly sorry to hear that, only my best wishes for her and her mother, that is never a good situation to be in, and I hope for the best case scenario, whatever that may be.

That aside, maybe try being less entitled. It’s a grating personality trait at best.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Übel 09/07/2015 at 01:15

0

Entitled? Me?? I don’t see my old-money bought Lambo or GT-R anywhere, or international student government unlimited money to buy whatever the hell I want.

How am I entitled to anything?

For Sweden > ranwhenparked 09/07/2015 at 01:16

0

Porsche AG is owned by Volkswagen AG, which is owned by Porsche Automobile Holdings

Übel > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2015 at 01:19

2

JayZAyEighty thinks C4+3=C7 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2015 at 01:19

0

You’re super entitled to/w a Kinja account!

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 09/07/2015 at 01:21

0

None of this surprises me. It only pisses me off more. I wish I could. I’m going to get someones sloppy beat to shit leftovers because that’s all I’m ever going to afford. I don’t even want a 912, and there’s definitely no logical way in hell I’ll ever afford a 928 of all things.

And even if your “driver” will be cheap for a while like you say, it’ll only be in your favor and not mine so what’s even the point? Within that “while” time frame, I’ll still more than likely be in college still slaving away at work whilist values of all the cars I want in any form continue to rise and the government continues to ruin new cars for me.

NoahthePorscheGuy > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2015 at 01:25

0

I think we all need to stop pretending that 911’s with 5mph impact bumpers are real 911’s.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Übel 09/07/2015 at 01:26

0

Yes, compared to the rich ass kids not getting the Fezza or Lambo or Bugatti or whatever expensive thing they wanted for their birthday, I’m the entitled one.

That doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.

Übel > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2015 at 01:27

1

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > NoahthePorscheGuy 09/07/2015 at 01:35

0

I think you forgot that K-Jetronic and torsion bars also fits the description of this car:

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Übel 09/07/2015 at 01:37

0

And you think I’m being that.. -_-

Really

Supercharged-V8-Jag > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 09/07/2015 at 01:41

0

The 550 Spyder successor is kinda the 918..

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > Supercharged-V8-Jag 09/07/2015 at 01:43

0

Nah, the 550 was really a heavily developed 356 paired down to nothing but what was “fast”. And then it was made faster. The 918 and CGT are too.....bespoke? Is that the right word?

Übel > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2015 at 01:46

5

No, you ARE being that, and to a really unbelievable degree. You know how many Porsches normal people have? Zero. I know adults with real jobs that drive cars not half as nice as even your beat-ass 944. Shit, look around this site. You have people buying $800 beaters and they love the shit out of them. Grow the fuck up kid, or you’re going to have a real rough time in life.

Party-vi > Übel 09/07/2015 at 01:47

0

Damn yo. Too harsh.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 09/07/2015 at 01:48

0

I understand why.

I still lament the feedback purity and lack of lag effect, and the sweet smooth song of a naturally aspirated perfectly balanced flat 6.

There is a reason that Porsche has held it’s atmospheric and turbo 911s differently, and why BMW Motorsport FORMERLY decried using turbocharging on it’s I6 engines, to prevent lag and feedback problems.

That is less of an issue, but still isn’t as seamless as a well-tuned atmospheric engine, and the efficiency gain in light of regulations is difficult to circumvent.

But a 991 3.8L X51 power kit engine in the current GTS with 400+ horsepower, more than 100hp/liter, is likely still to be a sweeter piece than a new 2016 3.0 TT Carrera S engine with similar horsepower, and probably more peak torque, although likely less off-peak torque near idle.

I’ve owned a turbo flat 4, and an atmospheric H6, simultaneously. The Turbo H4 had more peak torque, and more horsepower. The H6 was the more satisfying, sweeter engine to drive, and had noticeably more torque from idle to 3000RPM, when the turbo finally kicked in and launched it’s vehicle forward.

But the turbo car had to cruise at a buzzy 2900-3200RPM in top gear, so that the turbocharger wasn’t too far off boost that the lag would be unacceptably long in traffic.

The H6 car was pleased as punch to cruise at 70mph on the interstate at a touch under 2200RPMs, and would wake up with even the slightest throttle pressure, with no lag. Even with 800ccs more displacement, the cruising RPM difference, in addition to not needing to run NEARLY as rich as the turbo engine, the H6 got better cruising gas mileage.

The H6 also got similar or slightly better in-town gas mileage if both cars were driven calmly, or both were driven aggressively.

The only way the turbo got better gas mileage was when it was being driven calmly, or cruising at less than 65mph to minimize RPMs, compared to the H6 being driven aggressively.

Granted, both were port fuel injected, neither were direct injected as the new engines are, which helps both, but especially the turbo. The Turbo H4 was a 5-speed manual, with only a slight overdrive top gear. The H6 was a 4-speed auto (unfortunately), but with wide ratios, and a tall overdrive, because the engine could handle it. A 7-ratio gearbox in either manual or PDK variants in the new Porsches also helps to offer both nicely spaced increments, and wide overall range between lowest and top gear ratios.

NoahthePorscheGuy > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2015 at 01:51

0

I’m not sure I did.

Übel > Party-vi 09/07/2015 at 01:51

2

Yeah, I’ve had finer moments.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 09/07/2015 at 02:01

0

Cars were a much simpler machine 60 years ago, and there was less to differentiate them. “An engine, 4-wheels, and a seat” as the saying goes. Early Porsches especially, which were premium quality, but still minimalistic performance machines.

But I would say mid-engined vs. rear-engined made 550 and 718RSK, 904 Carrera GTS, and others a bit more distinct from 356 than you suggest.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Übel 09/07/2015 at 02:01

2

1. How the fuck am I not “normal”? What even is normal?

2. Who are you to say that I’m not “normal”? I work my boring ass off in a boring ass retail shop, but fuck that, that’s not normal or real at all!

3. I already have a rough time in life right now, but hey. Life isn’t worth living forever so who the fuck knows!

4. Let’s just simply avoid the fact that there are people my age and even younger that have everything handed to them on a diamond or platinum platter with golden spoons; but clearly I must be the worst of them all by your description.

5. I bought a $3000 Porsche that needs work and breaks down every so often, there’s nothing special about that and there never will be, why the hell would a “normal person” want that?

But what the fuck do I know, and don’t answer that because you’re gonna say “you know absolutely jack shit”, and that may be, but I’m well and perfectly capable of fucking up my own life on my own.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Übel 09/07/2015 at 02:03

0

Can’t star on mobile. Thank you.

ranwhenparked > For Sweden 09/07/2015 at 02:10

1

Yes, they do like to complicate things, don’t they?

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 09/07/2015 at 02:19

0

I’m basing it more on the styling elements of the 550 and the shared heart. The layout was changed and the 550 was made to race where the 356 was made to sell. But to me, for a 550 sucessor to exist it should use as much of an existing car as possible but paired down to nothing and then raced pretty seriously. The boxster spyder comes close but isn’t necessarily raced. It does check the boxes otherwise IMO. Maybe it isn’t special enough? It’s not a definitive list.

Fred Smith > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2015 at 02:33

6

Been monitoring from afar, but now I think I need to step in:

I know this can be difficult to grasp, especially around people our age in Ferraris, but no matter where we come from or what we do, most of us in this world go through a lot of the same things. You have things much better than most, and many have things far better than you. That relative wealth thing can sometimes be difficult to grasp, but what’s important to remember is that if we are in a place in our lives when we have both the ability to access the internet and the free time to use it for things like arguing on a car forum, we’re all lucky to one extent or another.

Remember, to a lot of people, you ARE that representation of good fortune already. In a lot of ways, your life is amazing. Hell, I’d certainly love to have a 944 like that (I miss my scrappy little 914, which hadn’t run in two years when I finally gave her up, every day). Maybe it isn’t where you want to be, but you can take yourself wherever you want.

Don’t ever down on your future, either. You’re very young (19, I believe?), and even if you don’t like the path you’re heading down now, it can always change. Hell, it probably will change two or three times. I’m only 20, and in the past year my life’s taken on two major changes that have completely altered my outlook for the future. This time last year, I was a community college student who blogged for fun. Now, I’m a paid writer for a respectable outlet who’s about to start his first semester in San Diego. Clearly you’re a man of talent, and whether or not you know where it takes you, it will take you somewhere.

Oh, and in regards to an earlier post about the prices of naturally aspirated 911s, don’t sleep on depreciation on 996s. They’re going down like C4 Corvettes, not up like NSXs. When the time comes I think a manual, glass sliding roof Targa C4 would fit you well.

DrJohannVegas > Party-vi 09/07/2015 at 11:16

3

Xyl0c41n3 > Übel 09/07/2015 at 11:24

1

Dude, don’t offer someone an apology and then offer them a criticism. Regardless of what you think of K-Roll, what’s going on with the girl and her mom is a whole separate issue. If you’re going to apologize for that, fine. Apologize for that. But, K-Roll — hell, everyone — already knows how you feel about him. There’s no need to fucking say it, again, especially after you’ve already been warned by a mod.

First and second rule of Oppo, dude. You seem to disregard them all the fucking time. You seem to want K to shut up. Maybe try taking your own advice, eh, cabron?

Xyl0c41n3 > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 09/07/2015 at 11:26

1

K, he’s goading you and you’re taking the bait. Just walk away, kiddo. Neither of you are walking out of this looking like the good guy. Just walk away.

yamahog > Xyl0c41n3 09/07/2015 at 11:27

2

SUCH COMMUNITY

VERY OPPO

WOW

Übel > Xyl0c41n3 09/07/2015 at 11:27

3

Okay mom

Xyl0c41n3 > Fred Smith 09/07/2015 at 11:34

3

TIL: the ‘owner’ of Oppo is 20. Holy fuck. What?

Xyl0c41n3 > Übel 09/07/2015 at 11:35

1

Aww, aren’t you just so cute, sugar. Bless your everloving heart.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 09/07/2015 at 22:01

0

Gains horsepower....hated by fans.

crown victor victoria > Xyl0c41n3 09/07/2015 at 22:45

0

Age is just a number. I’ll be 37 in a couple days. Porsche is probably more mature than I am quite positive he does a better job managing the mods than I ever would.

Xyl0c41n3 > crown victor victoria 09/07/2015 at 23:06

0

Heh. I wasn’t saying that as a bad thing. I had just always assumed he was closer to being one of Gamecat’s contemporaries versus one of K-Roll’s.

Also, happy early birthday, CVV! I hope it’s fantastic! :)

crown victor victoria > Xyl0c41n3 09/07/2015 at 23:16

0

Ah, gotcha. And thanks for the b-day wishes!

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 10/12/2015 at 20:02

0

I’m also excited for the future, but because of depreciation. I’m looking forward to owning a well-kept NA 911 with a manual transmission and good-old hydraulic-assist steering.